Part 1 of the exclusive John Mortimer interviews.
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Part 1 of the exclusive John Mortimer interviews. |
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RL: How old were you when you started playing guitar, and did/do you play
other instruments? When did you start singing? JM: I was 15 years old when I managed to get my first guitar---a really nice Columbus Les Paul copy with a sunburst finish. I don't play anything else, (at least, not properly). I started vocals in 1983. At that time I had absolutely no confidence in my vocals, which is why they sound so bad on the "No Man's Land" album...I thought, "Well, I won't be able to sing at all so I'll just have to shout!" RL: Who were some of your early influences? JM: Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, Scorpions, UFO, Judas Priest, Genesis, Rush, Deep Purple, Yes, Hawkwind, Pink Floyd, Focus, Blue Oyster Cult, AC/DC, Jimi Hendrix, Motorhead, Jethro Tull. RL: Were you in any bands before Holocaust? JM: No...the band went under 3 other names before we got to calling it Holocaust, but the whole reason we all bought instruments was to play metal in our own band formed at school. The other names were Buzzard, Apollo, and Preying Mantis. We were just pipped at the post by the real Mantis...their first record was out about 6 months before ours, I think. RL: What are your recollections of the NWOBHM era? Did you have the sense at the time that it was a "movement?" Do you have any particular memories or stories about shows you played, or other NWOBHM bands you enjoyed? JM: Yes, there definitely was a feeling of a heavy metal "movement" at the time---that's for sure. One strange aspect was that it wasn't a reaction AGAINST anything..."movements" often are. There was a sense of youth about it ...the young "sub-culture" thing that had belonged to Punk up to that time. I don't have any particular memories about specific events---we just went to gigs every week to see the likes of Samson, Def Leppard, Witchfynde etc. and kept a close eye on the music press because every week someone new was appearing with a self-financed disc. One occasion does stick in my mind, however, and that was seeing Def Leppard supporting AC/DC on the "Highway to Hell" tour. Leppard looked so young in those days and seemed to be just like us and many other bands at the start of NWOBHM....I remember all of us in Holocaust being at that gig and realising for the first time that the "New wave" was going to be huge. It was exciting because you never knew what was going to happen next. RL: The "Hot Curry and Wine" LP, according to the sleeve, was recorded on Sept. 10, 1981. Audio copies of the live video, which is clearly a different show, have been circulated with that same date. Do you happen to remember if those two shows were perhaps two sets in the same night, or were they played on consecutive nights, or were they not even recorded in the same venue? JM: They were 2 shows at the same venue...why Phoenix [Holocaust's label at the time --ed.] only quoted one date beats me! RL: As you know, Lars Ulrich and Geoff Barton chose the track "Death or Glory" from The Nightcomers to represent Holocaust on their '79 Revisited NWOBHM compilation. If you were given the choice, would you have picked that track or would you have picked something different? JM: I would have chosen "The Nightcomers." RL: Do you stay in touch with any of the early Holocaust members? JM: I occasionally bump into Nicky Arkless. He still lives in Edinburgh. Gary and Ed are both in London, I think, and Robin died in a tragic accident in Glasgow in the late 80s. |
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Part 2 of the exclusive John Mortimer interviews. |
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JM: Incidentally, when you asked last time about the bands that inspired us in the early days I actually forgot to mention Budgie!!! If you want you can sneak them in there when you next update the page. I remember we used to never stop playing stuff like I Can't See My Feelings , Napoleon Bonapart 1+2 , Breaking All the House Rules and Breadfan...saw them live on the Deliver Us From Evil tour as well!
RL: Regarding the killer instrumental track "Jirmakenyerut" from Hot Curry and Wine: what does the title mean? Also, possibly more than any other early track, this song really foreshadows the direction that you would take in Holocaust in later years. Have you considered redoing this song, and have you included it in any recent live sets? JM: Ah , now then!!...this title is something you can only understand if you come from the east coast of Scotland! Jirmakenyerut is a composite of 5 words thus; jir ma ken yer ut , which roughly translates as "does your mother know you're out." It's an ironic question which is directed at someone who's getting out of order (usually in a bar)..."Hey , pal!... jirmakenyerut?!" I tried explaining this to Jess Cox, who is only 100 miles south of Edinburgh in Newcastle, and even he doesn't understand! As for redoing the thing or putting it in live sets the answer is yes we have thought about it but we prefer the instrumentals "Curious" from "The Sound of Souls" and "Mercier and Camier" from "Spirits Fly" so the poor old Jirmakenyerut has never got a look in. You are quite right about it foreshadowing the direction the band would eventually take. RL: As a drummer (well, mostly ex-drummer now [g], I've always admired Steve Cowen's playing. How did you hook up with him, and can you give some background info on his influences and pre-Holocaust bands? JM: Steve was part of the original heavy metal movement at school which gave birth to the band. I had known him since leaving school as well. He was inspired to take up drums mostly because of Holocaust achieving some success. Influences include John Bonham, Simon Philips, Neil Peart, Steve Smith and Bill Bruford amongst many others. RL: What was going on between No Man's Land and The Sound of Souls? Did Holocaust officially break up during this point? Or was it more a matter of record label trouble, etc.? Is there the proverbial "unreleased album collecting dust on a shelf somewhere" from this period? JM: Holocaust has never officially broken up and no, there ain't no unreleased album, just a lot of demo tracks of unreleased songs, one or two of which are quite good. After "No Man's Land" Steve sound-proofed a basement and we just kept on writing new songs, doing gigs whenever and wherever we could. The period 1983-87 in the UK was totally dead for metal...if you wanted to play a rock venue you had to wear half a ton of make-up, have an enormous hair-do and sound like a poor man's Motley Crue...and that's if you were lucky! Our songwriting changed drastically, being more inspired by the thrash stuff emerging from the USA and Canada: do you remember when Metallica were a "Thrash" band?! Probably the biggest single influence was Voivod. Gradually the UK came round to metal again with Anthrax, Metallica, Megadeth and Slayer just exploding in size and we found it easy to get gigs again. In 1987 Metallica did their "Small Hours" cover and I anticipated enough publishing royalties to fund a new album. However, before any money came through Chrome Records gave us a tentative offer of a mini-album, (they didn't want to spend enough to do a full album), and that is how "The Sound of Souls" came to be. RL: What was your initial reaction when you found out that Metallica wanted to cover The Small Hours? What was your reaction the first time you heard it? JM: It was amazing, I have to admit. I was actually listening to "Master of Puppets" when I got the phone call about it...can you believe that!? It made me feel like a million dollars, that's the truth. I remember putting the EP on for the first time and suddenly getting the terrible apprehension that maybe they were going to take the piss out of the song; once I'd heard a few seconds of it I knew it was ok. What freaked me out the most was hearing James Hetfield singing lyrics that I remember writing in my old bedroom! I liked their version then and I still do. RL: Did Metallica's tribute (and the newfound name-recognition of Holocaust that it brought) influence the late-80s resurrection of Holocaust? JM: The biggest influence was financial. I was able to record "Hypnosis of Birds" and set up the Taurus Moon label in order to put it out on the back of the publishing royalties. The "newfound name-recognition" was surprisingly little (we did many gigs where people came up to us afterwards and said "Hey, I loved the cover of that Metallica song The Small Hours"!); but on the other hand I am amazed at the number of people both in Europe and the States who remember us for "The Nightcomers" etc. The loyalty of metal fans is really something and they all have memories like elephants. RL: The Sound of Souls was a vast change in direction compared to what Holocaust had done previously, and really stands out as a unique-sounding metal release to this day. Was this a conscious change of direction, or did it "just happen?" Any comments on what pointed you in that direction, and if this was more of a "John Mortimer thing" or more of a "group thing?" JM: I think it seemed like a real shock because there were no new Holocaust albums released between 83-89 [actually, 1984. ;) --ed.]. The songwriting shifted gradually over those years. Around the time of "Souls" I was a dedicated fanatic of Voivod, especially "Dimension Hatross" and "Killing Technology"...for me those albums are absolute classics...and the Voivod influence is pretty obvious on "Souls." It is still there today , I'm working on a song right now that has an unashamed Voivod tilt. I would say the direction we took was a "John Mortimer and Steve Cowen thing." For my part, the Futurist movement in art influenced my thinking about "The Sound of Souls". RL: How did the idea to use the electronic drums come about? (Am I correct in assuming that electronic drums were used in some parts, and not acoustic drums with electronic-sounding effects on them?) JM: You are correct, and we use the electronic drums on some of the brand new material as well. Steve is quite an experimental drummer, into different sounds and colours, so it wasn't too surprising when he announced one day that he'd got a small Simmonds set. (I immediately got him to dial up the most unpleasant industrial-noise type sounds on them, but then, I'm a barbarian)! RL: Are there any plans to release a remastered issue of The Sound of Souls? Not only has it not been an easily obtainable release for many years (a real shame!), but it would definitely benefit from a remastering job. It sounds like the initial release didn't do justice to the great production and tremendous sound you achieved. Perhaps the good folks at Neat will look into this (hint, nudge)? JM: Yes, we desperately want to remaster and release. Neat agree in principle but there are no fixed dates yet. |
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Part 3 of the exclusive John Mortimer interviews. |
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RL: You mentioned last time that you set up the Taurus Moon label for the
release of Hypnosis of Birds. I wasn't aware that this was your creation;
in fact, I had often wondered who these people were, as I wasn't familiar
with the label outside of HoB. Was there any activity with this label
besides HoB? (Side note: I'm not positive, but I think I actually sent a
letter to the Taurus Moon address in the mid-90s requesting a catalog! ;) ) JM: No, there was HoB and a limited issue (500) of the Heavy Metal Mania CD single available through Hellion in Germany; that was all. RL: What brought on the change in bass duties from Graham Hall to David Rosie? JM: Basically, at the time we were writing the material for Hypnosis of Birds Graham found it difficult to relate to what was going on...in many ways I don't blame him! The HoB album is a very "difficult" album. I love it and so does Steve and I know a lot of other people who have gotten into it but it requires a lot of listening to. Steve only fully got hold of it after we'd finished recording! David Rosie did a great job on HoB and he was great to work with but he didn't really get it either; I think he just liked the idea of doing an album with Holocaust. RL: HoB, like The Sound of Souls before it, marked another significant change in direction. Also, with the benefit of hindsight, we now know that HoB is pretty different from any other Holocaust release. It has a very thoughtful, introspective feel compared to the assault of previous and future releases. What influenced this change? Did David have an influence on this, or was it more a matter of "where your head was" at the time? JM: Definitely a case of where my head was. Creative depression is where Hypnosis of Birds is at. At the end of the guitar solo in "Summer Tides" there is a long sustained note and if you listen carefully to it you realise there isn't even a hint of vibrato...just nothing! That is an example of how the unconscious depression that was hanging around those sessions expressed itself. It's strange when you get into the soul of that album--it's dark and comforting, depressing and cathartic all at the same time. Myself and Steve love that album but I would forgive anyone for thinking it was just miserable, self-indulgent crap with terrible vocals and production...that's what the press thought! RL: A few spots in HoB have voices talking in the background. It's tough to make out what they're saying most of time...can you shed some light on what they're saying? JM: OK, at the beginning and ending of "The Tower" there are extracts from a tarot reading I had done for me around the time of writing the songs for Hypnosis. The song title is a reference to the Tower card which indicates sudden catastrophic change, sometimes with good consequences but more often with severe disturbance. So, what the woman says at the beginning is, "With the Tower being here, it's...y'know...it's intensifying...you've got this...the Tower which is [means being] frightened of change, worrying about things and yet knowing things HAVE to change." ...and at the end, "...and so you've got all this confusion with the Tower and it...it sort of illuminates a whole area, (you know, usually), in people's heads...you know...what...you know, their consciousness...that they haven't seen before." Then at the beginning and ending of "Mercier and Camier" we have quotations from various works by Samuel Beckett. At the start there is the intermingling of passages from "Molloy", "The Unnamable" and "Waiting for Godot," and at the end we have the very last lines from the book "Mercier and Camier"... "He kept his eyes on the engulfed horizon, for he knew from experience what last throwes it was capable of. And in the dark he could hear better too...he could hear the sounds the long day had kept from him. Human murmurs for example, and the rain on the water." Finally, at the start of "Into Lebanon"... "Devil come under summer skies, holding Bible, holding Koran..." ...which is simply the first line of the song. RL: How was the decision made to redo The Small Hours? Was this primarily a commercial move, or could we have expected this if there had been no Metallica cover? JM: There had never been a studio version of the song and at the time of The Sound of Souls we didn't put it on the album because the overall style of "Souls" is so different. I will say, however, that Metallica helped to keep the song very much in the forefront of our minds! RL: What does "Hypnosis of Birds" mean? JM: It refers to the dawn chorus. Where I live in Edinburgh it's almost like being in the country...there are so many trees around and I'm next to a river. One summer morning (about 4:30am), I was unable to sleep, so I was sitting reading the end of a book by Samuel Beckett called "Malone Dies." I finished the last line and put the book down. Now the birds had been making an incredible amount of noise as they do at dawn but as soon as I had put the book down there was complete sudden silence. I looked out of the window ...there was just complete silence, it was eerie. This silence remained for about 5 minutes. I had been in a very depressed frame of mind for a long time but all of it changed for me during that silence. The birds resumed their singing and I just picked up my guitar and started playing what is now the first 3 minutes of "Hypnosis of Birds"...with the lyrics and vocal melodies as well...straight off the cuff. RL: Is it accurate to say that HoB is something of a "theme" CD, without quite being a "concept" CD? There seems to be a lot of religious imagery from various backgrounds. This is not unusual for you, given the religious themes that are present on some songs on The Sound of Souls and The Courage To Be. Can you discuss the lyrical inspiration, especially on tracks like In the Dark Places of the Earth, The Tower, and Caledonia? And, if you don't mind sharing, what are your religious views/beliefs and how do they relate to songs like these (as well as other tracks like Three Ways to Die and Home From Home)? JM: I suppose there's a kind of "new age" theme. In Britain there is a real fascination with the concept of Earth-energy and stone circles like Stonehenge. The great thing about getting into the religion of neolithic pre-Celts (say 2000-1500 BC), is that nobody really knows what they believed! You can let your imagination run wild. I am a Christian and so it was natural for me to harmonise Christian Theology with certain aspects of the new age movement. The photo of me in the HoB booklet was taken at Callanish on the isle of Lewis off the west coast of Scotland. Callanish is one of the most important stone circles in Scotland and I was there for the Summer solstice. Like I say, I am a Christian and for me nothing is more important than Christ but I don't take the view that I should shove that down other people's throats. On the other hand, if I'm being honest as a songwriter then it is inevitable that Christianity will appear in one form or another from time to time in the songs. Other "religious" influences come in to flavour things as well, particularly Zen on The Sound of Souls and Covenant. With Covenant that was almost inevitable since Stephen R. Donaldson (the author of the "Chronicles of Thomas Covenant"), saturates his writing with religious concepts, especially Christian and Buddhist. |